The 10 Best Productivity Apps that use Gamification in 2023

This post was recently updated to reflect the 10 best productivity apps that use Gamification for 2023

Click here to view our full list of Gamification examples.

We all strive to be more productive: to have more energy, to accomplish more in a day, to hit our goals, to be the best possible versions of ourselves that we can be. But of course, we all face challenges that keep us from achieving our peak selves: we watch TV, we watch Youtube, we sleep in, we do everything possible to avoid the work that we need to be doing.

If life is a game, then we can hack our lives using Gamification to motivate, drive, or trick ourselves into being more productive.

The following are the 10 best productivity apps that use Gamification to improve your productivity, health, and financial habits.

The 10 best productivity apps that utilize Gamification

10. Todoist Karma – gamified productivity app that uses Karma as a measure of progress

How it works: First in our list at #10 is Todoist Karma, a simple, easy to use task manager that utilizes a point system to rank a player and get them motivated to complete objectives. When tasks are completed, the player gets Karma. When tasks are postponed for later, the player loses Karma.

Why it works:

  • Core Drive 2: Development & Accomplishment: Todoist Karma does a great job at showing a player their progress over time. They have great charts and analytics that show a detailed view of how productive a player is. Players are motivated to complete tasks to earn Karma and improve their charts.
  • Core Drive 8: Loss & Avoidance: Players hate losing things that they’ve earned. The threat of losing Karma for postponing or failing on tasks drives a player to complete objectives so that they can retain their status.

9. Smarty Pig – gamified productivity app for finance

How it works: Smarty Pig is a personal finance app that helps you achieve your purchasing goals. Let’s say you want to buy a new refrigerator. Well, with Smarty Pig, you set the refrigerator as a savings goal and then automatically deposit money from your bank account to your Refrigerator account. You’ll slowly fill your progress bar (savings account) until you’re 100% complete and you can buy that refrigerator guilt free.

Why it works:

  • Core Drive 2: Development & Accomplishment: Smarty Pig uses CD2 very well in two ways: 1) it makes the savings process incredibly easy. It’s a set-it-and-forget-it approach that makes you feel smart and financially savvy; 2) instead of a meaningless progress bar, Smarty Pig replaces it with progress that leads to a real world purchase. When you hit your objective, you not only feel good, but you have something to show for it.
  • Core Drive 3: Empowerment of Creativity & Feedback: Smarty Pig let’s you name your financial goals, giving you the creative freedom to save for whatever you’d like.
  • Core Drive 4: Ownership & Possession: As you rack up the dollars in your savings account, you’ll feel greater ownership of your accounts and pride in your ability to save money. Furthermore, Smarty Pig does a great job at encouraging you to spend your money once you’ve achieved your savings goals.

8. Fitocracy – gamified productivity app for fitness

How it works: Many people want to work out, but they have to battle against sleeping in, eating chips, watching Netflix on the couch, or late nights at the office. It can be incredibly difficult to get motivated and head to the gym. Fitocracy aims to drive people to live a healthier life by gamifying fitness and nutrition. They turn working out into an RPG (role playing game), where you earn experience and level up the more you work out and eat healthy.

Why it works:

  • Core Drive 2: Development & Accomplishment: Fitocracy gives the player the feeling of progress and improvements through earning experience, leveling up, achievements, and quests. It’s their way of turning fitness into a game.
  • Core Drive 5: Social Influence & Relatedness: Fitocracy excels at helping players find small online fitness groups that encourage each other to work out and eat healthy. By being the platform where groups communicate and encourage each other, Fitocracy taps into the Right-Brain Core Drives of its players, driving them to workout for intrinsic reasons (for example, because they don’t want to let their team down).

7. Bounty Tasker – gamified productivity app for to-do lists

How it works: Bounty Tasker takes the concept of a real life RPG to the next level. At its core, Bounty Tasker is a to-do list, but what really sets it apart is its Gamification elements. As a player, you get to choose and customize your character and assign yourself tasks that give you experience upon completion. As you gain in experience, you level up and earn items to outfit your character.

Why it works:

6. Challenge Timer – gamified productivity app for the Pomodoro Method

How it works: Challenge Timer uses the Pomodoro method to break large projects into smaller, more manageable tasks. Unlike most Pomodoro timers, Challenge Timer lacks a pause button, forcing you to finish your task during the given time period.

Why it works:

  • Core Drive 2: Development & Accomplishment: like most productivity apps, Challenge Timer uses CD2 to drive users to complete tasks and objectives. When you complete a task, it gets marked off as “achieved”, making the user feel good about their work.
  • Core Drive 6: Scarcity & Impatience: the lack of a pause button creates a limited, forced window for you to complete your task. By limiting your ability to get distracted, Challenge Timer forces you to stay focused.
  • Core Drive 8: Loss & Avoidance: if you get distracted or need to stop your task, then you have to click on the “Forfeit Work Session” button–admitting defeat. Players don’t like to lose or get defeated, so this drives them to stay focused and complete the task.

5. Beeminder – gamified productivity app that puts your money on the line

How it works: At it’s core, Beeminder is quite straightforward:

  1. Set a goal
  2. Did you complete your goal?
    • Yes: great, keep it up!
    • No: we take your money

What!?!?!… yup, that’s right, if you don’t hit the daily or weekly goals that you set with Beeminder, then they take $5 from your credit card (it’s their business model). Sound extreme? Maybe, but it’s quite effective for people that only get motivated when they’re about to lose something.

Why it works:

  • Core Drive 2: Development & Accomplishment: Beeminder uses a “yellow brick road” to keep you on track. Everyday it asks you if you accomplished your goal and to quantify it (quantification is key). If you’re on track, then you stick on the yellow brick road. If you get off track, then you have 24 hours to get back on track or else Beeminder charges you $5.
  • Core Drive 8: Loss & Avoidance: CD8 is a big part of Beeminder. If you get off track and don’t hit your objectives, then you get charged $5. For some players, they need skin in the game and the thought of losing something to get them motivated to take action.

4. Epic Win – gamified productivity app for those that want to level up their life

How it works: Epic Win takes the concept of a real life RPG and makes it super fun with great artwork, fun animations, and a system that truly feels like a game you would pay for on the app store. The character designs are imaginative, fun, and quite customizable for a productivity app.

Why it works:

3. SuperBetter – the gamified productivity app for recovery and wellness

How it works: SuperBetter was designed by Jane McGonigal to help players live a healthier, more fulfilling life. To accomplish this goal, SuperBetter is a game where players design their “epic win” and go on quests to accomplish objectives. Players design their quests, team up with allies, identify “bad guys” or actions that are counterproductive, and create power ups throughout their journey in real life.

Why it works:

  • Core Drive 2: Development & Accomplishment: SuperBetter utilizes player stats to motivate players to take action and accomplish their goals. Players can create their own quests to move towards accomplishing their epic win.
  • Core Drive 3: Empowerment of Creativity & Feedback: Players use their creativity to craft the quests that will accomplish their Epic Win.
  • Core Drive 5: Social Influence & Relatedness: CD5 is where SuperBetter really shines. Not only can you add friends as Allies in the game, but Allies can add Quests to your Quest Board. In the video above, Jane’s friend knows that she is trying to recover from a concussion. He creates a Quest on her board to walk together on the Embarcadero, knowing that this will help her recover from her concussion.

2. Forest App – the beautiful gamified productivity app that helps save the world

How it works: When it’s time to focus, open the Forest app and plant a seed, signifying that it’s time to focus. If you stay focused on your task, then the seed will grow into a might tree! However, if you leave the app to check on something like Facebook, then your little seedling will whither away.

Why this works: Forest app is an amazing app because it utilizes many core drives to Gamify your life:

1.  Habitica (HabitRPG) – the gamified productivity app that turns life into a game

How it works: Similar to other real life RPGs listed above, Habitica aims to gamify your life. Habitica has earned the #1 spot on our list because it boasts over 2,000,000 users and is a completely open source project. In Habitica, players create their character, create their Guilds where they team up with other players, and take on quests and defeat monsters to accomplish their objectives.

Why it works:

Did we miss any Gamified Productivity Apps that should be on our list?

Let us know if you have created a gamified productivity app or use one that you believe should be on our list and we’ll review it. If it blows us out of the water, then it could make our top 10 list!

The 10 Best Educational Apps that use Gamification for adults in 2023

This post was recently updated to reflect the 10 best educational apps for adults that use Gamification for 2023

Click here to view our full list of our Gamification examples. 

Get ready to learn, the fun way! We have scoured the internet and app stores to find the 10 best educational apps that use Gamification for adults. See how companies and organizations are making learning languages, music, coding, art, history, and more fun and exciting for everyone!

10. TEDEd – gamified educational app to create actionable video lessons

How it works: TEDEd creates amazing, fun, entertaining educational videos for all ages to enjoy. In addition to their videos, they’ve created a web app that allows users to create video lessons that are actionable. Choose a video, add a description, add a quiz (multiple choice or open-ended), and prompt some discussion.

Here is the quick Lesson I created for Yu-kai’s TED talk.

Why it works:

9. Khan Academy – gamified educational app to learn anything for free, forever

How it works: Khan Academy is an educational platform where students can learn math, science, computer programming, history, and more. What makes Khan Academy standout is their mission: they aim to provide this education to everyone around the world (currently in 36 languages) completely for free forever.

They’ve accomplished some amazing results:

  • Students who complete 60% of their grade-level math on Khan Academy experience 1.8 times their expected growth on the NWEA MAP Test, a popular assessment test.
  • Student use of Khan Academy correlates with score gains on standardized achievement tests.
  • 20 hours of practice is associated with a 115-point average score increase from the PSAT/NMSQT to the SAT, nearly double the average gain of students who do not practice on Official SAT Practice.

Why it works:

  • Core Drive 1: Epic Meaning & Calling: Khan Academy truly utilizes CD1 to motivate donors, teachers, and volunteers on its quest to accomplish its mission. Because of their mission to provide free education to everyone forever, they’ve gotten companies that have donated over $10,000,000 each.
  • Core Drive 5: Social Influence & Relatedness: Khan Academy utilizes the power of CD5 to recognize their interns from around the world:

8. Coursera – gamified educational app to get Ivy-League education from your own home

How it works: Coursera is an online learning platform that provides universal access to the world’s best education from top universities. Universities add their courses onto the platform and students can use Coursera to pay for and take a course.

Why it works:

7. Udemy – gamified educational app for user-generated learning

How it works: Udemy is an online platform that allows educators to upload courses and for students to purchase these courses and learn online. Anyone from anywhere in the world can upload a course: you can learn anything from coding, to languages, to fashion, and even parenting.

Why it works:

  • Core Drive 2: Development & Accomplishment: on the student-side of the platform, Udemy utilizes progress bars to indicate the student’s progress and to encourage completion of a course. They also dangle a trophy at the end of the course as their reward for completing it.
  • Core Drive 3: Empowerment of Creativity & Feedback: Udemy truly excels on the teach-side of the platform. Anyone from anywhere in the world can create their own online course. They have the complete creative freedom to choose any topic and use their video editing skills to make their course stand out.
  • Core Drive 4: Ownership & Possession: Udemy provides instructors with the chance to generate passive income.

6. Tinycards – gamified educational app for learning with flashcards

How it works: Tinycards (by Duolingo) makes learning with boring old flash cards actually fun and enjoyable through the use of Gamification. Pick a subject: language, science, movies, and start to learn with flash cards.

Why it works:

5. Blinkist – gamified educational app for reading non-fiction books in just 15 minutes!

How it works: Blinkist is for the professional on the go, the person that is super busy, but that desperately wants to carve out a little bit of time to learn something new. Blinkist summarizes over 2,000 non-fiction books to give you content that you can easily digest in 15 minutes.

Why it works:

  • Core Drive 2: Development & Accomplishment: Blinkist isn’t using a bunch of fancy avatars or leveling up systems; instead, it focuses on making the user feel incredibly smart and effective. Blinkist is a master at utilizing CD2 to help its users read more, learn more, and become a more educated person

4. Memrise – gamified educational app to learn a language through locals

How it works: Memrise is a gamified language learning app that utilizes a myriad of gamified techniques (including over 20,000 native speaking videos) to teach a new language. Players can learn English, French, Spanish, German, Japanese, Korean, and many more languages. In addition, Memrise has courses for art, math, and history.

The app is incredibly fun to use. You are an astronaut, going on your journey to learn a new language! As you learn and progress, you gain in levels and your pet alien evolves as well.

Why it works:

  • Core Drive 2: Development & Accomplishment: Memrise uses CD2 in a myriad of ways: from earning points for completing lessons to leveling up your little alien pet, the app continuously shows the user their status and progression.
  • Core Drive 3: Empowerment of Creativity & Feedback: Memrise has the “point and translate” mode that allows players to turn on their camera, point to an object, and get the object translated in real-time. It’s a phenomenal way to get creative and capture your own vocabulary library.

3. SoloLearn – gamified educational app to learn how to code

How it works: SoloLearn aims to gamify the way we learn how to code. As an educational app, SoloLearn naturally has lessons that teach players how to code, but that’s just the beginning. SoloLearn utilizes player challenges (players can compete head-to-head in a coding challenge and the winner earns XP), a Code Playground where players can show off the code they’ve created and get feedback from other members of the community, and a leaderboard that shows the top coders.

Why it works:

  • Core Drive 2: Development & Accomplishment: SoloLearn utilizes progression, EXP, and leaderboards to drive players to continue learning to code.
  • Core Drive 3: Empowerment of Creativity & Feedback: SoloLearn truly shines in the way it uses CD3 to drive player engagement. Players can create their own code and apps, upload it to the playground, and have players from around the world upvote their product and even play with it. This provides immediate feedback for the player and encourages them to continue engaging with the platform.
  • Core Drive 5: Social Influence & Relatedness: SoloLearn has an amazingly vibrant community (their Q&A discussion forum). The community is completely gamified, allowing players to upvote topics and get EXP for answering questions.

2. Yousician – gamified educational app for learning a instrument

How it works: Yousician is a Gamified educational app to learn a new language. When you’re ready for your lesson, you turn on the app, select your instrument, and choose a lesson or song to play. The app will play the background music, display the song tutorial, and listen to you play to give you immediate feedback about how you’re doing.

Why it works:

  • Core Drive 2: Development & Accomplishment: Yousician is structured like a game: you start off as a beginner with easy levels (easy songs). As you progress and get better, you unlock stages that get progressively difficult and you level up in level. You can also see your progress through the in-app analytics that shows how you’re improving.
  • Core Drive 3: Empowerment of Creativity & Feedback: This is where Yousician truly shines. The key to Yousician is that it listens to you play and gives you immediate feedback. If you struck a chord too soon, it will visibly let you know immediately and track your progress. In addition, you can upload your own music to the app so that you can learn to play your favorite songs.

1. Duolingo – gamified educational app for learning a new language (and it’s free!)

How it works: Duolingo is a free language learning app on your mobile phone. There are a ton of languages to learn: Spanish, French, German, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Italian, Portuguese, Dutch, Irish, and the list goes on and on. In fact, more Americans are learning a language on Duolingo than the entire American school system! It’s quite an impressive feat.

Duolingo is proud that they infuse Gamification into every lesson. From in-lesson grading, to streak counts and hearts, Duolingo has done a terrific job at making language learning incredibly fun and easy.

Why it works:

  • Core Drive 1: Epic Meaning & Calling: As stated in the Duolingo Manifesto: “There are over 1.2 billion people learning a language and the majority are doing so to gain access to better opportunities. Unfortunately, learning a language is expensive and inaccessible to most. We created Duolingo so that everyone could have a chance. Free language education – no hidden fees, no premium content, just free. Duolingo is used by the richest man in the world and many Hollywood stars, and at the same time by public schools students in developing countries. We believe true equality is when spending more can’t buy you a better education.” When you use Duolingo or pay for the premium version, you are contributing to this grand mission.
  • Core Drive 2: Development & Accomplishment: Duolingo utilizes progress indicators such as daily goals and streaks to make a player feel accomplished and get them to come back for daily usage.
  • Core Drive 4: Ownership & Possession: There is a currency within Duolingo called Lingots which allows players to buy Power Ups (such as streak freeze) and buy attire for your avatar.
  • Core Drive 5: Social Influence & Relatedness: Duolingo has social language learning clubs within the app that encourage players to learn with each other. Although it sounds like a great idea, it’s actually implemented weakly–not much conversation is happening amongst club members, resulting in empty rooms.
  • Core Drive 6: Scarcity & Impatience: In order to play (to learn a language), you need lives. If you run out of lives, then you have to wait until you regain life to learn again.
  • Core Drive 8: Loss & Avoidance: In Duolingo, players get lives. Every time you fail a lesson, you lose a life. Run out of lives and you’ll have to wait until you can continue learning.

Conclusion: Education Gamification is here to change our future

Even with all the great examples above, this is just the tip of the iceberg of all the great education gamfiication examples. Education gamification is here to stay and here to change the world.

What about you? Do you know of any great education gamification examples that can really impact our society, not just for this generation, but also future generations to come? I look forward to learning about that in the comments!

Your kids don’t want to watch TV — they want to work!

On Sunday morning, my family got together at my mom’s house to eat brunch. My dad and brother brought steaks, my mom made some scrambled eggs and waffles, and my wife made her famous roasted potatoes and avocado toast. Each family member planned to contribute to the brunch.

My kids on the other hand were goofing off in the living room while the prep work for cooking was taking place.

My 5yo approached me, “Papi, can I watch silly Muppet Babies?”

“Hah!” I laughed. “Now is not the time for TV. Now is the time to make brunch! Look how everyone is contributing to the family brunch. Grab your sister and let’s get to work.”

Eagerly, the 5yo grabbed the 3yo and came to the prep table. I assigned them the following tasks:

Continue reading Your kids don’t want to watch TV — they want to work!

How to get siblings to stop fighting by emphasizing maturity

You give your younger child some strawberries.

“I want strawberries too!” shouts the older child.

You give your older child some strawberries.

“Her strawberries are bigger than mine!” screams the older child.

This dynamic between siblings can be incredibly frustrating. In my conversation with Michaeleen, author of Hunt, Gather, Parent, she admits that the topic of siblings can be a whole other book of its own. It’s funny because Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish expressed a similar statement in their book Siblings Without Rivalry (which is an amazing book as well).

So how can we get siblings to cooperate instead of compete?

It all start with Responsibility.

If a child is acting out, don’t punish, give them more responsibilities

Continue reading How to get siblings to stop fighting by emphasizing maturity

GRACE Parenting: How to use a knife to teach kids Autonomy and Confidence

It was 7:30am. I was getting breakfast ready and the 5-year-old was sitting on the couch reading a book.

Suddenly she plopped down on the couch and exclaimed, “I’m bored.”

First and foremost, it’s ok for kids to feel boredom. Actually, it’s beneficial. But often times parents see this as a requirement of their attention. A parent will drop everything that they’re doing in order to entertain the kid, or likely, just turn on the television and let YouTube entertain them. I know I’ve been guilty of this.

But let’s flip the script. Instead of seeing boredom as something bad, let’s see it as an opportunity for something good.

In this case, I was getting breakfast ready, so I let the 5-year-old know, “if you’d like, you can help me make the smoothie.”

Examine how I carefully worded my statement, “if you’d like.” It’s not a demand — it’s an invitation.

A demand won’t work in this instance: Do our demands really work on children? Do our threats actually get our children to willingly and happily comply? If I want my child to brush her teeth, should I threaten her to do it right now “or else”, or should I let her know that her toothbrush is hungry and it wants to eat the germs on her teeth?

Because I didn’t word it as a demand, the 5-year-old eventually sat up and waddled over to the kitchen island.

Continue reading GRACE Parenting: How to use a knife to teach kids Autonomy and Confidence

GRACE Parenting: I let my daughter scoot to grandma’s house all alone 😱

Inspired by Michaeleen Doucleff’s book, Hunt, Gather, Parent, and the show Old Enough on Netflix, I decided to teach my 5-year-old how to scoot to grandma’s house independently.

I would never do this as a Parent in SF

My wife and I lived in San Francisco for 13 years, 5 of them with kids. I’ve dreamed about teaching my kids autonomy by letting them walk to school more independently, but it never felt safe because of the homelessness and general crime in SF.

Our school was only a 10-minute walk from our home. I truly believe that if she had to, our 5 year old could have made the walk.

To practice, I would bike the girls to school, park at the street corner, and encourage them to walk to the school gates by themselves. It was slow going.

At first they didn’t want to. After a few days they walked a few steps. Then a week later they made it halfway. All the while, I made sure to let them know, “Practice makes better. You’ll make it further little-by-little each day. Don’t feel rushed. Take your time and you’ll get there.

Important: Kids mature at different paces. It’s more productive to encourage and let them know that they’ll do it when they’re ready as opposed to forcing kids to do something. In this example, if I had forced them to walk to the gate, they would have resisted harder and probably developed a fear of walking independently.

For many reason, my kids never made it by themselves to the gate.

But we soon moved to the suburbs and my chance to teach autonomy through independent walking was reborn.

A parent’s worst fear: abduction

In Julie Lythcott-Haims’ book How to Raise an Adult, the opening pages describe a scene that is a parent’s worst nightmare. A mother left her child alone in the mall in order to do some shopping. The child was abducted and killed.

Continue reading GRACE Parenting: I let my daughter scoot to grandma’s house all alone 😱

Octalysis TV – Experience Audit of Permanent Link

Experience Audit of Permanent Link

Jun Loayza: [00:00:00] Hey guys. Welcome back to a Octalysis  TV. You got Junhere along with Yu-kai

[00:00:03] Chou. Yu-kai is the founder of Octalysis. It’s a great framework for a game of vacation. If you haven’t seen it, definitely check it out. But thank you for coming to  the show. And today we’re going to be looking at a website and the goal of this show is to look at a website and to really dissect it for ways that it could really improve improving ways to really drive users, to take an action.

[00:00:24]What I did was I checked my Twitter. I found somebody on there that I followed today. We’re looking at Arvid calls site called 

[00:00:32] And we’re going to be looking at through the Octalysis framework. So a Yu-kai, we’re just going to start off, take a look at the site and what are the first things that come to mind? Ready? GO!

[00:00:42]Yu-kai Chou: [00:00:42] All right. So I do like on this site, it starts with a band message. A broken link is a broken promise. And I have heard before that every link is a promise, a broken link is a broken book. So I like how it has this big, bold text that just tells you there’s a problem.

[00:00:59]And it’s, and it catches my attention stands out. It’s a strong statement and it changes it rotates between the two. No, actually it rotates between a variety of different measures of broken link gets your book flag. But this one is weird ebook analytics and links that never bring.

[00:01:13] Okay. So it has a few rotations of what a broken link is, and it has like core drive, seven unpredictable and curiosity, and also the loss and avoidance. If you see it, it has a lot of that. Almost like a fear message. Oh, look how bad it is. Look how bad it is. And sometimes there’s, this is a positive link for your books that work forever.

[00:01:29] So I think what I don’t like is I think it’s rotating randomly between pain. A broken link is a missed opportunity. It’s a broken book, is this and that. And then in the mid, in the midst of it all sudden it’ll throw in. Analytics tool. And then it’s Hey, things that don’t, that’ll never that never break or something.

[00:01:51] So I feel like there’s a bit of inconsistent about, okay, so what am I trying to get out of it? And then but I think overall it’s pretty strong. So then I immediately then recognize the desired action is,

[00:02:04] Jun Loayza: [00:02:04] Within two years of releasing your book, your certain links were stopped working. I think that’s pretty concrete. Like why within two years my links will stop working. It’s actually CD8 (Loss & Avoidance) I think I, I would have a fear if I’m actually building and writing an ebook that like I’m going to be losing something with all that work that I’m putting in within two years, like all my links were will no longer be relevant.

[00:02:25] Yu-kai Chou: [00:02:25] Yeah, I can actually, I can fully relate to that. I think here is interesting, right? Because here is the first place that tells me this side is for people who write books. All right. Other places I’ve processed that there’s a broken book and all that stuff, but I just thought a broken link has many things I’d broken promise, and it was not fully clear that it’s for book writing.

[00:02:43] And when I said permanent link, I thought, okay, blog posts and all those, the website, permanent links, those are probably useful. And here I see within two years of release per year, external interest up. And I think, again, I super relate to that because my book right now has a bunch of broken links. Publish the book and what did in 2016, maybe 17.

[00:03:02] And and yeah, lots of them are just, some of the companies got acquired. Some of the website got shut down and it makes, even though the knowledge of the book is. Relevant, relatively timeless or at least long lasting the links die first. Sometimes the examples get outdated, but before the examples get outdated as a educational lesson, the the links get out.

[00:03:24] So I can immediately relate to this pain. So I like this, like you said, this one sentence on the top that makes you understand who you are, who the site is targeting, and then also connected to a pain that at least as a publisher I’ve faced. And then again, the desired action sign up for your three-day trial.

[00:03:40] It’s very clear as a desired action. And the secondary action is, Oh we haven’t been motivated enough to

[00:03:45] Jun Loayza: [00:03:45] Oh, okay. I was pretty much sure. You voted motivated me. You said it was really relevant. So I was like, Oh shoot. Okay. I’m in the mindset I I need to sign up right

[00:03:51] Yu-kai Chou: [00:03:51] Oh so yeah, it was one the pain is relevant, but we haven’t figured out what it’s, how it solves it. And but I, what I do like it States very strong in the S on this page. This is the desired action. And like I said, everything around the page is just to motivate that desire to action through those eight core drives.

[00:04:07] And there’s a live demo. So that permanent link redirects your readers to working sites. So you can stay the authority in your niche. And I like how it first says, this is how we do it, but then it’s about an impact, right? Like you can just say, Oh yeah, we’re just a tool. We’re just a tool to, make sure links redirect.

[00:04:24]And it just sounds insignificant, but first you have the big bold texts about, Oh, it’s a broken promise, but here’s this, you can stay the authority in your niche. And I think that’s a very important art. Last time we looked at someone who who was saying, Hey, I can help build, gets you to be more popular on Twitter.

[00:04:41]But the way he presented it, the way he pitched it, Just felt Oh, you get to have your voice, you get to express it. You get to be an authority. And and at the end of the day, we look at it as Oh, so you’re getting me Twitter followers and getting people to pay a little more attention.

[00:04:55] Now, this is the same thing. It’s not just the link. It’s something that helps you stay the author, stay the authority in your niche so you can stay. The authority is that even I’m not questioning the grammar of it. You can stay as the authority in your niche. Wow. Let’s just assume that grammar is correct, but I think it’s a strong way to connect a feature,

[00:05:16] a 

[00:05:16] Jun Loayza: [00:05:16] Sorry. I was thinking about that a lot. I think it’s so you can maintain the authority.

[00:05:23] Yu-kai Chou: [00:05:23] no, but I think you’re saying you become, you are the authority as opposed to, you will have the authority. So you are the authority as

[00:05:28] Jun Loayza: [00:05:28] Oh, there should be become, so let’s either become or maintain, either become the authority or you maintain the authority.

[00:05:33]Yu-kai Chou: [00:05:33] I think stay as the authority would work too,

[00:05:35] Jun Loayza: [00:05:35] Okay. Either way.

[00:05:36] Yu-kai Chou: [00:05:36] you’re really big. Yeah. Anyway. Yeah. That’s it lets us, but I do again, it’s very important for human focused design or a functional. This is the focus design. Don’t just talk about your feature. Talk about the value proposition of how people’s life will change.

[00:05:49]You can become an authority in your niche or stay as the authority in your niche. So that’s core geometry development, accomplished message. Learn more about your readers. So those are other little features permanently provides insightful book analyst. This is just awkward or it’s like, Oh 

[00:06:04] here’s I guess another feature they’re trying to pitch to us. Learn more about your readers. Like where does that come in? And it’s Oh, provides insightful e-book analytics. Okay. I think it’s a little bit strange. I feel like even if just as permanent, it’s also provides some of best in class insightful ebook and the analytics.

[00:06:20] So you can understand your readers or so you can engage them better or something like that maybe is it feels, it would feel like less random. And I learned then, because I, it feels like, learn more about for your readers is reinforcing that top sentence. But it’s not, it’s a totally different feature.

[00:06:36] I feel like it deserves its own icon and an image. So here I don’t think I’m ready to want to do the 30 day trial, but I might check it a lifetime. I scroll down a little bit first and then see if I want to do a live demo. Okay. Here’s a video. And it looks like looks of what we’re doing.

[00:06:50] A person talking about his side. Yeah.

[00:06:54] Jun Loayza: [00:06:54] that’s great, man. Can you hear this?

[00:06:55] Yu-kai Chou: [00:06:55] Okay. No, I cannot hear

[00:06:57] Jun Loayza: [00:06:57] I can hear it, but it looks like you can’t hear it.

[00:07:02] Yu-kai Chou: [00:07:02] Yeah. Okay, cool. And I can go to the side here, but I think let’s drop that. But I, it sounds like it’s just the founder talking about how his sites work or.

[00:07:11] Jun Loayza: [00:07:11] yeah. He’s introduced to introducing the product. I’m sure we can go to a live demo. You want to click on that one?

[00:07:17] Yu-kai Chou: [00:07:17] yeah, let’s get a live demo if you’re sure we can. I feel I, I have a hunch that we can also example data. How about the real thing? What you see here are the actual real-time data of the book. Zero two sold best on 10 on how to put a strip of business overuse these charts in the standard sentence.

[00:07:34] Reasons. And okay, this is cool. And then there’s again, desired action. So that is a good thing. Analytics. So all time clicks, 1,881. Is that a best seller? It’s not a lot of clicks, to be honest.

[00:07:47]Jun Loayza: [00:07:47] I think that’s respectable, man. That’s very respectable. A bestselling title. Yeah. I guess what is, what does it take to be a bestseller? What does it take to be a bestseller?

[00:07:57] Yu-kai Chou: [00:07:57] and these are not, in the normal. Book world. I think he’ll need 10, at least tens of thousands of purchases, right? Book purchases to sell.

[00:08:07] Jun Loayza: [00:08:07] Maybe 10% of that are clicking.

[00:08:09] Yu-kai Chou: [00:08:09] the fifth most of the, a lot of the big ones are 50,000 to 10 to like a hundred thousand.

[00:08:16] Jun Loayza: [00:08:16] How many people are

[00:08:17] Yu-kai Chou: [00:08:17] don’t know. I feel and this is Yeah, unless, yeah.

[00:08:19] So it could be case that his book is best-selling and this is just an ebook that’s hosted on this site and that’s, but again, my whole point is we’re talking about we’re talking about social proof, right? Quarter of five and social influence relatedness. And here it’s Hey, check out this bestseller of this.

[00:08:35] Really cool. Okay. So first of all, I really like the features that this is a real-time analyst is how it actually works. This is not dummy data. This is not example, this is actual real time how this is doing right now. I do this a lot. Okay. But then I was distracted because it says it’s his a real time bestseller.

[00:08:53] And it says all time clicks, right? Not even this today, this week, all times eight. And I did check October, it’s the spin. This has been around for half a year. And then I just think, I don’t know about other people, right? You said it’s respectable. I feel like, Hey, if I’m going to do all this effort and write an ebook and it become the best on this platform, I only get, you know what that’s three, 300, 300 clicks a month, 10 clicks a day.

[00:09:21] I don’t think it’s, I don’t think it’s a lot. And then a number of unreachable links. So it looks like it’s not fixing the link for you. It just identifies you have one broken link in your ebook. And now what I don’t know then is how how does it read my ebook? Is it scanning my ebook the whole time?

[00:09:39] Is it, do I have to write the ebook here on this platform? Now, I’m curious about how the platform works itself, not just the value proposition, but monthly clicks, yearly clicks. Yeah, I think straightforward.


[00:09:53] Jun Loayza: [00:09:53] It gives you the links.

[00:09:57] Yu-kai Chou: [00:09:57] can you sort

[00:09:58]Jun Loayza: [00:09:58] You can’t sort it

[00:09:59] Yu-kai Chou: [00:09:59] want, obviously

[00:10:00] Jun Loayza: [00:10:00] I want to find the one 

[00:10:00] Yu-kai Chou: [00:10:00] it says one link is broken, right? Yeah. Yeah. And so my book has like hundreds of links and this would be a hard thing to scroll down. And Eddie, I think he even has see all links on the bottom, so it’s not even all of

[00:10:14] them. 

[00:10:15] Jun Loayza: [00:10:15] yeah, you’re right.

[00:10:16] Yu-kai Chou: [00:10:16] So

[00:10:17] yeah.

[00:10:17] I just think 

[00:10:18] Jun Loayza: [00:10:18] it is, it might just be a preview, I’m not sure how the product works. Maybe next time we’ll have to actually create an account. Maybe we can go through the onboarding actually, eh, at one point how much? Hi. What time are we’re in 12 minutes in you know what, I think that’d be interesting.

[00:10:30] A lot of the time, a lot of

[00:10:31] Yu-kai Chou: [00:10:31] let’s just let’s just,

[00:10:32] Jun Loayza: [00:10:32] we’re looking at the just the first part of it which I think is, has been pretty great in that they have a desired action. They even have a demo of what it looks like. So let’s take the next step. Let’s go through the onboarding.

[00:10:44] So let’s pretend that,

[00:10:45] Yu-kai Chou: [00:10:45] Yeah. We’re ready to dive

[00:10:47] Jun Loayza: [00:10:47] So you wanted to go see all links and

[00:10:49]Yu-kai Chou: [00:10:49] No. Kick click get started now. Click on, get started or to search for three-day

[00:10:52] Jun Loayza: [00:10:52] All right, gets wait. I don’t know if this is my 30 day trial though. Oh yeah, here it 

[00:10:56] Yu-kai Chou: [00:10:56] can just click the, get started. All 

[00:10:59] yu_kai_chou-2021-4-27__0-31-38-CFR: [00:10:59] right.

[00:10:59] Jun Loayza: [00:10:59] let’s sign me up. Per Mo link. I think it’s called

[00:11:05] Yu-kai Chou: [00:11:05] Permanent link much longer.

[00:11:07]Jun Loayza: [00:11:07] Can’t see my password. Can you good?

[00:11:10] Yu-kai Chou: [00:11:10] I see dots.

[00:11:10]Jun Loayza: [00:11:10] You know what I’ve been thinking about this, going to be a better thing than just like email and passwords. Like I’m so tired of creating new emails and passwords all the time. It’s gotta be something better.

[00:11:21]Yu-kai Chou: [00:11:21] It’s an identifier in the security. 

[00:11:22] Jun Loayza: [00:11:22] We’re here we are here.

[00:11:24]Yu-kai Chou: [00:11:24] You could eventually do that with, iPhone face scanning or fingerprinting,

[00:11:28] Jun Loayza: [00:11:28] like that. Okay. Let’s do onboarding. So this is the four phases of the user journey. We went through discovery. So we did went through the discovery phase. Now we’re going through the onboarding phase and the onboarding phases for the user to learn the rules of the game. Okay.

[00:11:40] You are now a user Yu-kai. Let’s go through the rules.

[00:11:45] Yu-kai Chou: [00:11:45] All right, so we’re here and it just says welcome. Let’s get started first creative project. I like how one thing I like is that the create new project is a blue

[00:11:54] button 

[00:11:55] Jun Loayza: [00:11:55] also like with this chat thing, it’s 

[00:11:56] Yu-kai Chou: [00:11:56] covered. Yeah. Yeah. It’s covered by the

[00:11:59] Jun Loayza: [00:11:59] there it is there

[00:11:59] Yu-kai Chou: [00:11:59] that’s sometimes just, yeah, sometimes just two technologies.

[00:12:02] Jun Loayza: [00:12:02] it’s the same color too, like blends in, but yeah. What are you going to do?

[00:12:05] Yu-kai Chou: [00:12:05] Yeah. Yeah. I don’t feel very motivated to watch that video right now and also feels like I’ve already seen it.

[00:12:13] Jun Loayza: [00:12:13] I think it was the same on the homepage. I think it’s 

[00:12:15] Yu-kai Chou: [00:12:15] discovery page. Yeah. Yeah. So it’s awkward. Okay. So let’s just create a new project. Cause that’s the only thing it wants us to do. All right. Project thing, a project can be a book, a presentation. Let’s just say oncolysis prime. Yeah. All right. And then description, whatever, all this favor.

[00:12:35] Jun Loayza: [00:12:35] All right. That’s cool.

[00:12:37] Yu-kai Chou: [00:12:37] Okay. And there’s a fallback URL,

[00:12:38] Jun Loayza: [00:12:38] just call 

[00:12:39] Yu-kai Chou: [00:12:39] every time your link

[00:12:40] Jun Loayza: [00:12:40] sorry for cutting you off there you cut. I just want to call out that we’re able to do all of this with a free trial without even having to put in the credit card. So I think that’s a big plus to get the user, this foot in the door, get them invested in the product, put all, put all the information there without the friction of putting the credit card, you will get the dropout, right?

[00:12:58] Like some people they’ll set it up and then they’ll never put in their credit card, but I think more people are going to be invested, get their foot in the door, get started, and then later possibly put in their credit card.

[00:13:08]Yu-kai Chou: [00:13:08] It’s an interesting discussion, right? I remember for octopus is prime. When you ha you, when you sold enough in the discovery phase, when they see, Oh, there’s a tremendous amount of value, they’d rather pay $1 to, as a trial. And then we see that. On the second month, a lot of people start paying, right?

[00:13:26] Because the thing about the, your opt in, into a $1, and then you have to opt out to start paying 50. So we actually, I believe we saw higher conversion rates at two $50, but the negative side of it is that a lot of people, two, three months later get a bit upset. Some of them, not a lot, but a good amount of says, Hey, I didn’t realize it was paying for this.

[00:13:45] Hey, give me my money back. And we always refund them. We don’t want to

[00:13:47] Jun Loayza: [00:13:47] You’re talking about.

[00:13:49] Yu-kai Chou: [00:13:49] They don’t feel

[00:13:49] Jun Loayza: [00:13:49] For the listeners who don’t know is the $1 sign up challenge. Basically what we did is we created a way for you to have to answer a bunch of questions. And once you get that correct, not everyone gets it. Correct. It’s actually difficult. But if you’re able to get that, make that correct.

[00:14:03]Then what ends up happening is now you have the. Opportunity to try our product for $1. Normally it’s $50 a month. You were able to try it for $1. And then we, it was a pretty good conversion rate, I think, from getting the $1 up to converting to $50. But like you said, you get some people who become like zombies, they didn’t realize that they would automatically convert

[00:14:23] Yu-kai Chou: [00:14:23] Yeah, there’s another disadvantage, which is once that cohort ends, like the people decide to. Do not do it either because they don’t wanna play the $1 or they cancel the $1 before the $50 they’re gone. That wave is gone. They’re not going to come back. Four. So then we switched to a freemium this, you get to try it out. And when it’s time you have to pay. And so the nice thing is that when people pay, they choose to pay them. Okay. I’m putting my credit card to pay full price now that she used to pray. So no one’s going to. No one can say that, they, they didn’t realize they were going to pay.

[00:14:53]But the second advantage is that all your free users over time, when they, when you put the block on the block, they can pay. So it could be people who sign up for free kind of six months ago, and then they might be upgrading two years ago. They could be there’s a whole pool of free users are people could potentially upgrade because you got them to use the casual version.

[00:15:14] And if the free the trial has enough of a great experience, then. I think now this is a bit of a hybrid. It says, Hey, you can play with it as much as you want for 30 days without giving a credit card. And I think it wants to get us to be attached, once we start using, once we embedding the links and permanent links then we were stuck, then we have the sunk costs like, Oh, I don’t want to lose all this work. Or like I’ve already done work into it and I can’t take it out. So I think they’re possibly betting on that. Okay. So let’s see how they set this up. Oh, here they can also have like more emotional imagery. Of like book success.

[00:15:46]And they should, I always recommend sprinkly sprinkling as many social proof testimonials as possible. So Hey, this is awesome. This is amazing to do that. Like I signed this up and it changed my life. I think this is something that we should see it in more places

[00:15:59] Jun Loayza: [00:15:59] do you mean like a testimonial here along the way?

[00:16:02] Yu-kai Chou: [00:16:02] Yeah, sprinkle it everywhere. Every time. There’s dessert action, social proof discovery page Hey, I signed up to permanent  link and my life changed, hey, creating this, like you want to continue to reinforce that it can, you could almost never go wrong with it. Just having quotes of people saying this was a great thing. Yeah. And then the more specific, the better, if he just says Bob happy customer, That’s usually not as believable, as Bob Jennison, dad of three living in Ohio. I know it even better author of this book. Then it’s Oh, there has to be a real person.

[00:16:35] Jun Loayza: [00:16:35] think something you also write about you cause getting to a wind state. So for every step along the way, or for every step to get to the wind state, you have drop-off and I don’t think we’ve hit a Winstate yet. We basically signed up. We are now trying to get to the Wednesday, which I think is getting, figuring out which of my links are broken.

[00:16:53] So we’re trying to get there. And so the good thing is, I think I see here day zero 30. So I understand, how many of these I have left, but I also don’t understand how many steps I have to take to get to the wind state.

[00:17:05] Yu-kai Chou: [00:17:05] Yeah, technically should be the moment you create a new project because once we finished this, like we’ve entering all this information. The next screen should just make us feel. Wow. So happy. So maybe if we can just fill out this and then the, and then it’ll say your book has 29 broken links and these are the broken links.

[00:17:22]Suddenly that then you to see them

[00:17:23] Jun Loayza: [00:17:23] All right. So I’m entering this information. Let’s go to create others easy. So just one step project created now, what do I do? I know I have to, so now I manually add the links. What I thought was going to happen? I would be able to link my ebook and then it would pull the links automatically.

[00:17:40] Yu-kai Chou: [00:17:40] yeah. Like it’ll scan your whole ebook.

[00:17:42] Jun Loayza: [00:17:42] Yeah. Yeah. That’s what I was hoping.

[00:17:43] Yu-kai Chou: [00:17:43] But now it’s every link as of now, just every link you do, 

[00:17:46] Jun Loayza: [00:17:46] This is interesting. You kinda, you said you have hundreds of links. How would you feasibly Adam here?

[00:17:52] Yu-kai Chou: [00:17:52] I would not use the service now that I see this, it works this way.

[00:17:55]Jun Loayza: [00:17:55] Okay let’s see. Let’s add your leg. Let’s see what happens. This is the Euro. You want your readers to see link your real friend? Wait, hold on.

[00:18:04]Yu-kai Chou: [00:18:04] Yeah. This basically says that when I’m writing my book, every link needs to have a backup link. All right. And it’s annoying because the backup link could also expire in two years.

[00:18:16] Jun Loayza: [00:18:16] I thought what was going to happen again? We didn’t watch the video. But I thought what was going to happen is I thought it was going to pull all of my. All of the ebook links automatically and then create recommended links in case it fails. Based on that link.

[00:18:30] Yu-kai Chou: [00:18:30] What I should do it should say, upload your PDF or upload your, I forgot what the add the Kindle file is. Yeah. Upload your. As a KTP

[00:18:40] Jun Loayza: [00:18:40] but I think that’s what it does. Look look at this adaptive linking, right? This is

[00:18:44] Yu-kai Chou: [00:18:44] no, let’s just means like, how would you,

[00:18:46] Jun Loayza: [00:18:46] No, you leave it empty. No, you leave it empty, leave empty for adaptive linking.

[00:18:51] Yu-kai Chou: [00:18:51] Okay.

[00:18:52] Jun Loayza: [00:18:52] I think that’s what it does.

[00:18:53]Yu-kai Chou: [00:18:53] But it’s, you manually entered this one link, which means you have to enter all the links in your book. It doesn’t

[00:18:58] Jun Loayza: [00:18:58] let’s see what happens. Oh, wait, hold on. Thank you off. I don’t know what this is. Hello.

[00:19:08] Yu-kai Chou: [00:19:08] Hello. Okay. So

[00:19:11] Jun Loayza: [00:19:11] it’s a broken link. So I, so you can’t see my screen, I’d have to change it, but it goes to a broken link, but I’m not sure. I’m not sure what happens.

[00:19:21] Yu-kai Chou: [00:19:21] figured it out

[00:19:21] Jun Loayza: [00:19:21] I’m not sure what adaptive

[00:19:22] Yu-kai Chou: [00:19:22] So I think what it is, I think the service is like a tiny Euro or a Bitly that tracks clicks. But it also checks automatic. It checks is accurate. Are the links alive or not, or is it dead? I think that’s all it is. Like you create this Bitly link and then you put that Bitly link into your book.

[00:19:43] Jun Loayza: [00:19:43] Yeah. Yeah. I see what you’re saying. I don’t know. Again, we haven’t seen the video and not everyone who 

[00:19:49] Yu-kai Chou: [00:19:49] it’s guaranteeing that. Yeah. So I think it’s like guaranteeing, even though the link you put into your book would fail, the Bitly link will never fail. Let’s presume our tiny URL. The Bitly link will never fail because it will always redirect to something else,

[00:20:05] Jun Loayza: [00:20:05] Or it’s not just that, but you could also change it later on. If it does fail, you can come back here and you can change it later on. You can change that redirection. 

[00:20:10] Yu-kai Chou: [00:20:10] Yeah.

[00:20:11] Yeah. When it’s adaptive, do you know, how does it figure out what to you Redirect it does that. Does it explain the rules somewhere?

[00:20:17] Jun Loayza: [00:20:17] Can you share? We build permanently because we need it for our own projects. Sorry. I’m just gonna quickly scroll through this know. I’m sure we could find it. But I think that maybe that’s one thing to call I don’t know how adaptive linking works and we haven’t seen the video. Like maybe we should watch it to learn, but like there, there likely should be a way to learn how adaptive Lincoln works without necessarily watching the video.

[00:20:39]Not, everyone’s going to watch the video.

[00:20:40]Yu-kai Chou: [00:20:40] What I would do. I would set a design back to the game, patient scarcity and unlocks, but I would, in that interface, I would create some kind of Hey, zero out of 10 or one of them. Once you create 10 links. You will unlock the extra cool feature. Like now you can see special analytics, right?

[00:20:59] So it’s Oh, I like, cause right now we’re curious. And we satisfied our curiosity. So I think we feel like we’re done, but if it says, Hey, you are like, you got one out of 10 before you unlock a new feature, then that curiosity might get us to do more of this. And once we get 10. We might see again, new features that are cool potentially, but then it’s we have built more investment.

[00:21:19] We have more sun costs and we’re like, okay. And we have more muscle memory, more habit of using this. And so okay, I guess let’s we already made 10 and let’s just keep using this now. So I would probably think about a

[00:21:30] Jun Loayza: [00:21:30] I really liked that. I think that’s a good point. You can have some kind of progress bar to, to communicate to the user, like what is the next desired action? Like you actually have to get to 10 links added in order to get to the next step. And that drives me to complete it. What is

[00:21:46] Yu-kai Chou: [00:21:46] Yeah. And also, since we assume every reader wants everyone to read their book, or every writer wants everyone to read their book. They could have a cause, on the left side, there’s not much, it’s very minimum MVP right now. Projects, nothing else. There could be some kind of like most popular links, our leaderboard of links.

[00:22:03] It’s this is, this one has 500 clicks today. This one has 400 clicks and it’s just get people to drive and click on those links, even though. And then of course, when you click on the links, people that doesn’t mean people read the books, right? Because the book links to those places, but maybe it’ll say, this link is most click link

[00:22:20] is from 

[00:22:21] Jun Loayza: [00:22:21] this book. What would be the purpose of that though? Would that be just another social proof? Oh, I know other people are using it as well.

[00:22:26]Yu-kai Chou: [00:22:26] I’m just curious, just like front page of Reddit, I’m just like, Hey, whatever. What is everyone curious about? Because if you’re reading a book, usually don’t want interruption. You want to just keep going forward. If you click on the link, that means that, that was so interesting.

[00:22:39] You want to disrupt your reading experience and go to the link or it’s so like shocking, like it’s like shocking stat. Did you know that, 97% of people die from eating. I dunno, hairballs. And you’re like, what the hell? That makes no sense. And then there’s a link, right? So you want to click on the link.

[00:22:58] So it’s like, what’s the most shocking thing. And just get people to have visually come back to this and be more interested in talking about it. I think, because right now it does feel like, Oh, that’s it has this little feature and there’s nothing more that makes draws me back.

[00:23:12] Jun Loayza: [00:23:12] so let’s do one more thing. Before we stop finish this, let’s look at the pricing tiers to take a look at that through an  Octalysis lens.

[00:23:20]Yu-kai Chou: [00:23:20] all right. For those who don’t yet have a budget for their links, 

[00:23:27] Jun Loayza: [00:23:27] Oh, that’s 

[00:23:27] Yu-kai Chou: [00:23:27] what does it have? Links with permit link branding. Your readers, wait five seconds for redirection, Whoa, basic analytics, one project with up to 25 permanently, which is not that much, many projects. And wow. This is pretty harsh, 25 only.

[00:23:44] And all of them show it now. 

[00:23:45] Jun Loayza: [00:23:45] Out really quick? The thing that stands out to me is I don’t know where I’m being pointed to. It’s like the gray one is actually the one that’s. Or the zero, the free one is a different color. So maybe that’s attracting me a little bit, but usually when I see these pricing tiers, I see some kind of a desert Oasis or basically it’s drawing me to the site is telling me which one I should be focusing on. But right now it’s not maybe here like this two months for

[00:24:13] Yu-kai Chou: [00:24:13] best value.

[00:24:15] Jun Loayza: [00:24:15] Usually they start also start off in the annual right. To make sure that more people get on the annual, but this one’s by default getting me on the monthly.

[00:24:23] Yu-kai Chou: [00:24:23] Oh, really? I think default monthly is better because if you look at yearly first, that number might shock you.

[00:24:31] Jun Loayza: [00:24:31] That’s true.

[00:24:32] Yu-kai Chou: [00:24:32] Yeah.

[00:24:32] Jun Loayza: [00:24:32] I’ve seen most 

[00:24:33] Yu-kai Chou: [00:24:33] see, Oh, it’s $10 a month and you save like you saved money when you switch.

[00:24:39] Jun Loayza: [00:24:39] All right let’s continue.

[00:24:42] Yu-kai Chou: [00:24:42] I’ll tell you that if I’m actually just discovering what this does, I really hate yearly because the commitment before I even know if I want it right. If I already tried it so free trial, and I know I like it. I don’t know about you. Do you usually, if you subscribe to any service, do you like monthly or

[00:24:57] Jun Loayza: [00:24:57] all I can tell you Riverside, they have a yearly or monthly option. I do monthly. I just did a D script. They have yearly and monthly. I did monthly, so I always do monthly because I never know if I’m gonna need to stop using it the next two, three months. So I always do

[00:25:10] Yu-kai Chou: [00:25:10] yeah. And usually yearly, it’s Oh, it’s the price of nine months. So most of the time we don’t know if we want to use it for nine months straight. Yeah. And also like there’s a few things like XSplit. Which is, adding cool background. When you do meetings. I bought yearly.

[00:25:25] I had might’ve bought even bought a lifetime because it’s like I’m going to be doing way it’s part of my life. I’m going to be doing a lot of video meetings, especially with COVID, but even beyond that, so I figured I needed, I’m just probably just gonna invest towards, but it’s only after I’ve realized it has features that no one else has.

[00:25:42] And it has like a super high, unique value proposition. Okay. So we want you to free let’s look at the publisher then the most amount of things, so that customizable instantly redirected adapted links. Okay. Per link privacy, first analytics. So before it’s not per link. It’s aggregate, and and it’s not privacy first. What does the privacy first mean? And why is it good? Like what’s around the privacy second. And what is privacy first? Like first above everything else. What’s everything else. Anyway that’s, it’s not clear that this is what I need and I’d pay for anyway notifications when your L’s break.

[00:26:18]That should be. The basic value proposition, right? Like I would put in a free plan by

[00:26:24] Jun Loayza: [00:26:24] I think all of them

[00:26:25] Yu-kai Chou: [00:26:25] notifications. When your outbreak no, not the free one, not the free one, not the free one,

[00:26:30] Jun Loayza: [00:26:30] I see.

[00:26:31] Yu-kai Chou: [00:26:31] but what I would do is I would put one notification when you’re always breaking the free one. So one day you get Oh, you’re just, you’re your link just broke.

[00:26:42] Would you like to upgrade now to track all of your links? So I would check with one and then, because when one breaks, you scared, right? You’re like, Oh crap. And then you would probably prepare that moment to make sure it watches out for the other

[00:26:54] Jun Loayza: [00:26:54] can I just say, I feel

[00:26:54]Like these multiple tiers aren’t needed. I feel like having too many tiers requires me to read and look through all these bullet points. And if I just want to, if I just want to pay right now, you already know how many links I have. You should just tell me how much I have to pay.

[00:27:10] It’s like MailChimp, right? W with MailChimp, you just pay based on your tier. And I think this one you should probably based on your tier as well, I’ve only put a one link like mine by relevant ones, either free or $5. Like for these other ones, probably not as much. Maybe there should be some kind of a meet or something that if I, it’s like, Hey, find out how much you pay.

[00:27:27] If you put in a thousand links and you can bring it up and show you how much you pay for that.

[00:27:31]Yu-kai Chou: [00:27:31] Yeah they’re pretty big price jump zero to five, five, 10, 10, and 15. But each one just adds a bit more from the last teams. So five projects versus one project working on their legacy for authors who want their first see and stay successful. Yeah. So one project with hundred links, five projects, 505 custom domains, cross project analytics, advanced reporting, backup and export features for this have shelves full of books to take care of for a publisher.

[00:28:02] Okay. So I just realized they had called they have names, beginners professionals and publishers. Yeah. So I guess there are different personas. I don’t fully mind that they have these four tiers, but I just feel like. It’s not, I can only identify that it’s one book, five books and 50 books. But the other stuff below, I can’t tell how valuable that is.

[00:28:25] Cross project analysts. Hey, you gave me a example. The demo that we saw from the live project is that cross project analytic insight. Is that basic analytics or is it advanced reporting? I have no idea. So if that was already if we w what we just saw was what they call full analytics insights.

[00:28:43] I don’t find that super valuable

[00:28:45]Jun Loayza: [00:28:45] Ooh, enterprise pricing. 

[00:28:47] Yu-kai Chou: [00:28:47] Mar 

[00:28:49] Jun Loayza: [00:28:49] Nice. Okay. Cool.

[00:28:52] Yu-kai Chou: [00:28:52] after I leave money to leave money on the table.

[00:28:57] Jun Loayza: [00:28:57] All right.

[00:29:00] Yu-kai Chou: [00:29:00] I actually go to upgrade account on the

[00:29:02]Jun Loayza: [00:29:02] It’s the same. That’s where I

[00:29:03] Yu-kai Chou: [00:29:03] what, like the CRA the credit card. Oh, okay.

[00:29:06] Jun Loayza: [00:29:06] So you mean, if I subscribe, I can go to

[00:29:07] Yu-kai Chou: [00:29:07] right. Let’s let’s yeah. Yeah. Let’s just see what kind of credit card

[00:29:11] Jun Loayza: [00:29:11] I think they’re using Stripe or paddle.

[00:29:14] Yu-kai Chou: [00:29:14] Where are you located? Oh, this is interesting at first ask for your zip code. And that seems like a, like really unintimidating.

[00:29:22] Thank you, you put in, and then it’s okay how would you want to do this?

[00:29:26] Jun Loayza: [00:29:26] are they texting me?

[00:29:27] Yu-kai Chou: [00:29:27] Oh, and then it has an excuse. Oh, it’s a zero

[00:29:30]Jun Loayza: [00:29:30] Yeah, but.

[00:29:31] Yu-kai Chou: [00:29:31] zero tax. There’s some S state sales tax. If you’re selling to the same state, then you have to pay some taxes,

[00:29:37] Jun Loayza: [00:29:37] I’ve never seen this ever in any other website about Texas, like for a SAS product, I’ve never seen the Texas.

[00:29:46] Yu-kai Chou: [00:29:46] Yeah, it’s uncommon, but technically I think people should pay taxes when they’re in this from the same state. Okay. Pretty sure I do. I don’t know. Have you seen many of these interfaces where you put in the zip code first

[00:29:57] before? Anything 

[00:29:57] Jun Loayza: [00:29:57] the first time. That’s what I’m saying. I think they’re calculating the taxes, but I’ve never seen that.

[00:30:01]Yu-kai Chou: [00:30:01] Yeah. I just think I put in the zip code is an interesting way to just cause usually people see credit card, like nah, maybe next time or

[00:30:08]Jun Loayza: [00:30:08] That was weird to me because seeing the zip code, I’m like, I’m not really getting anything shipped to me. So that was a little jarring for me. 

[00:30:17] Yu-kai Chou: [00:30:17] okay. 

[00:30:18] Jun Loayza: [00:30:18] It does explain it down here

[00:30:19]Yu-kai Chou: [00:30:19] It didn’t seem

[00:30:19] to pan 

[00:30:20] Jun Loayza: [00:30:20] here, it says your purchase may be subject to sales tax and we’ll automatically never.

[00:30:23]Yeah, they’re just checking if I’m subject to sales tax. I would just say, I don’t know. It seems like they’re using paddle to do this. If there was, like you said at any point, if you could add the testimonials, some kind of CD five social proof, I think would be here to push me along the way.

[00:30:39] Yu-kai Chou: [00:30:39] yeah, I purchased the professional plan and it made my book successful. 

[00:30:46] Jun Loayza: [00:30:46] You know what I’d love. I’d love links to people’s eBooks that are using it to see how it works.

[00:30:52] Yu-kai Chou: [00:30:52] Links to people’s eBooks.

[00:30:54] Jun Loayza: [00:30:54] you said, right? There was a place 

[00:30:55]Yu-kai Chou: [00:30:55] But they aren’t, but they w they’re not links to people’s eBooks are links to that

[00:31:00] Jun Loayza: [00:31:00] I’m saying like

[00:31:01] Yu-kai Chou: [00:31:01] out to

[00:31:01] Jun Loayza: [00:31:01] people’s eBooks, I would go to their eBooks and read it and then click on the links to see how it works. Like more of that social proof or maybe a 

[00:31:10] Yu-kai Chou: [00:31:10] Also one thing I’m curious about. He talked about how, they recreated this tool to help themselves. Apparently because they have many books Hey, I want to see, what is your book? What is your credibility? I go to about us. Good about us in the

[00:31:22] Jun Loayza: [00:31:22] Oh, okay.

[00:31:24] Yu-kai Chou: [00:31:24] like credibility, right?

[00:31:25] What’s your

[00:31:25] credit? Are you a bestselling author? 

[00:31:27]Jun Loayza: [00:31:27] That’s a,

[00:31:27] Yu-kai Chou: [00:31:27] He look, he looks sharp in this one picture. Yeah, but the video that we played with him on the left bottom didn’t. Isn’t as sharp as this one, let’s just

[00:31:37] Jun Loayza: [00:31:37] I thought it was good.

[00:31:40] Yu-kai Chou: [00:31:40] I hear his voice. So maybe his, he sounded charming. Okay. So who, I’m an author software?

[00:31:46] software service offers the solution probably better feels strongly in the field of my life. Oh, so here’s the guy who sold zero to sold. Okay. So I just, so we said yes. Okay. I didn’t know it was like him. I thought it was like just another bestseller on the plan, like the best seller on the platform.

[00:32:04]Okay. Sorry. I made fun of you. My bad. I, obviously

[00:32:08] the link 

[00:32:08] Jun Loayza: [00:32:08] man, you’re just 

[00:32:08] Yu-kai Chou: [00:32:08] hired. I think everyone agreed. Yeah. I think everyone agrees. I noticed that my link started malfunctioning. That was the first time I’ve learned that constant thing, not a product got fag were just complaining and didn’t have time to build something solid.

[00:32:20] I remember. Yeah. Yeah. That’s actually what I want to do. I want to just remove that clickable link. I think what I do is speaks to my pain that I also have. It’s not fun to have no leaks in a book that’s supposed to teach these meaningful things about connected world around them, but I’ve wrote can quickly set up custom redirection.

[00:32:34]Yeah, it’s really not quick to send them, like I had have to create all of them and replace them in my

[00:32:40]Jun Loayza: [00:32:40] It’s 

[00:32:40] Yu-kai Chou: [00:32:40] very hard. 

[00:32:41] Jun Loayza: [00:32:41] probably V2 of this, right? This is probably his MVP (Minimum Via Product) and V2 (version 2). You just link to the ebook and you extract all the links.

[00:32:49] Yu-kai Chou: [00:32:49] Yeah, I th I feel like it would be more applicable if I’m starting to start in a bride, my book, and every link I put in, I use this first. I feel like it’s not practical for me to have a book that’s already written and then go and replace them one by one. And still, even in the first case, I don’t know if I want to deal with that hassle.

[00:33:07]Jun Loayza: [00:33:07] Cool. All right. I think that’s it. We’re gonna end it here. Thanks guys also. Thanks for thanks to Arvid . Actually, he didn’t really want until their site. We just ahead and did it, so I’ll message him and let’s see what he thinks. But either way it was a great man. Thanks Yu-kai. And everyone PRIME ON man. Cool.